How to Maintain the Distance

My last article was about how we need to be able to treat each other as siblings in Christ, removing sexual and marital connotations and assumptions from our communication.

This article is about what you are supposed to do when someone else does not do this.

In other words:

How to tell them to stop flirting.

The main reason why I am doing this is because of a thread in the Rebelution forum. The girls are asking the guys several questions (I helped moderate those questions haha) regarding respect. Therefore, I will be mainly talking to the girls. This is one of the questions:

What is a respectful way of saying, “I don’t like you, stop flirting with me!!!”

There are two key words here: Respectful, and Flirting.

Flirting, as I define it, is an action that is intended to convey a sexual and or marital meaning and hopefully elicit a reciprocal action that also conveys a similar meaning.

This can vary from an out of place compliment like: “Have you died before? Because that looks like a resurrection body to me…” to: “Hey… I would work 7 years for your sister… but I would work 7 more years for you” to: “Do you need prayer? Because I am certainly willing to lay hands on you” to touching or hugging you inappropriately to other more disgusting things that I do not like to mention (or even think about).

(Thanks to Felicity for posting those pick up lines on facebook.)

Now, there are really only a couple kinds of guys who would even think about saying these kinds of things. One is bad, the other is nervous, but really doesn’t want to deep down (and is possibly thus prone to repentance). Both are weak and perverted. They each respond differently to your reactions to their advances, although thankfully you don’t need to change your responses depending on which one a guy is.

If a guy does something minor, like being too personal or forceful in a compliment, be cold. Tell him that you do not appreciate the manner in which he said what he said (or what he said at all for that matter). Let him know plainly that he crossed a boundary he should not have crossed, then walk away.

That is stage one.

Stage two depends on what he does. If he stays away, all is well and good. If he comes after you and apologizes sincerely, accept it kindly, and then go on.

If he persists then and tries to defend himself, continues what he was saying, or if he repeats the action later, or if he crosses a greater boundary (such as using either of the last two above lines or worse), even if it is the first time, then you go straight to stage two.

Stage two consists of three parts.

  1. Slap him, and leave.
  2. Tell your parents, especially your father about it, and if possible another trusted mentor.
  3. Do not hang out with him anymore.

That sounds rather extreme, and a bunch of you (boy or girl) are going to disagree with me, but hear me out.

Now, I realize that you might not understand what I mean by slapping him. This is understandable. People don’t really do it anymore, even though the drop in morality renders the action more necessary, and this is a shame.

A slap is when you hit someone’s face with the flat of your hand.

There are a couple kinds of slaps. There is a playful slap, and there is a serious slap. Slaps are also different depending on who is administering the slap. A slap from a guy to a guy is dramatically different from a slap from a girl to a guy.

In the old days if a guy slapped a guy, it was either a challenge to combat (read: death threat), or a dire insult, sometimes these were equivalent. Nowadays, it is generally just a really strong insult. Very demeaning.

If a girl slaps a guy, that is even more demeaning, especially when done in a playful way. If done seriously, it has a different meaning.

So why am I telling you to slap him if it is demeaning? You thought you were supposed to respectfully tell him to back off?

It is because you aren’t. You don’t respect him that much. It is dangerous to you and to him if you don’t slap him. It makes him back off (I will talk about what you do later if he doesn’t), and it gives him an opportunity to learn a lesson. It puts his actions in a new light, and he just might see that he was doing something very serious rather than fun. This is especially true of the nervous guy: this may be one of his last chances at liberty from perversion.

I can say this because I have been on both sides: I have been a pervert, and I have been a righteous young man. And I know what it is like to be in that pit. I wish I had been slapped by a girl.

Now, as I said, I would not be a bit surprised if you have no idea how to slap a guy.

So.

I will show you how.

The next step is just as crucial, and in fact, more so. You need to be protected from further advances by this young man. Stage Three (when a guy persists after you have slapped him) is not in your hands, it is the part of the men around you to take care of it. You don’t turn to your peers to protect you though: you turn to your mentors, and they either take care of it themselves, or they ask others to as well. If they don’t, keep finding and asking mentors until they do!

So what are the guys supposed to do? (Perk up your ears guys!)

Punch him.

I am dead serious.

If a guy persists after you have slapped him, at that time, or any time thereafter, he needs to be taken down. In the old days he could have been killed, but we won’t go there (if you are curious, read some good Westerns).

That is why, as a girl, you need to always be in the company of more than one trusted young man willing to stand up for you, or none at all (meaning you are with a mentor or two and some other girls).

That is why, as a young man, you need to stand up for young women who want to be stood up for (and even the ones who don’t want it, they just might learn too).

If you aren’t sure about how to take care of a guy that way, guys, let me know. I would be happy to demonstrate. 😀

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60 Responses

  1. Wow! I definitely agree with you on that! That is excellent stuff!

  2. To me this seems very violent, I am quite a shy person, especially when it comes to young men and I would never slap someone. I would probably tell my Dad, however if it was at school there would be nothing anyone could do. What is your stance on that?

    • If you are absolutely opposed to doing it yourself, then always be with someone (or more than one person) who will.

      If you let things slide, things get worse.

      My stance on that is that you should homeschool, haha. But I realize that is not an option for some people. This makes it more difficult, but makes it more imperative that you either are willing to defend yourself or are always with people who are willing and able to defend you for you.

  3. Thanks for the slapping video! xD Very informative. I’ll remember that!

  4. ROFL Gotta love that last line. 😉 Yeah, definitely agree with everything you said there. Nothing like a little violence. Hehe

  5. Cool, you got the video up! Thank you for getting this written! 🙂 And for helping moderate all those questions… that was quite a job, wasn’t it?

    Well… though I was sort of… disagreeing with you earlier, I have since remembered how I have dealt with something of this sort before, and, while I didn’t actually slap them in the face, I did cause some pain and scared him pretty good. hehe. Needless to say, I had less trouble with this particular person than other girls. 😀

    So, yes, I guess I agree with you. As usual… Though the reason I would have been hesitant about the whole slapping thing is that, well, some girls do it in a flirting sort of way. And I don’t approve of that. haha. But in this way, I guess I could see it working. Though, I don’t think I would get a chance to do it since I’m normally with Josiah or Papa when we’re with other people and I don’t think either of them would hesitate to hit someone on my behalf. 😀 But, if they weren’t there, I would do it. Especially if someone actually dared to say on of those lines to me… Thankfully I have never had anyone say anything like that to me!

    So… I guess if a guy you know online does something of the sort you just block them, right? (Cheryl would be excited about that, haha) And get your Dad involved, of course. Slapping people over the internet is just not the same…

    And thanks for the video… I guess I might do better in the little skirmishes with Josiah (my brother, for those who don’t know us) with that info. 😉 Though I wouldn’t slap him in the face, since he doesn’t insult me…

    • Yep, it finally worked. 🙂 I enjoyed the question moderation. Haha. And thanks for the help on these comments! It was much appreciated.

      Ah good, I was afraid we might disagree on two things! Haha.

      That is the goal: to scare him. At least get him to think that maybe flirting isn’t as fun as he thought.

      Exactly, flirting slaps are really not good. But I think that this sort of slap is very non-flirty…

      That is the best option: brothers and fathers are indispensable. Hehe.

      I am glad you haven’t had to try it out on anyone. I would be afraid to be in his shoes… * shudders *

      Basically, yes. Cheryl is right on that one. 😀 Definitely get your father involved. The best thing is to give your father the guy’s email address and let him chew him out. That counts for a couple slaps at least…. 😉

      Of course, he has seen it too, so it isn’t too much of an edge. Hahaha.

  6. Interesting thoughts, Jay. I’m not sure that I’m convinced of the whole slapping and punching thing though. It seems that would be a practice that would quickly lead to more broken relationships than healthy or restored relationships; and quite frankly, I don’t trust most people (especially young people) to be able to separate their emotions from their actions sufficiently in such instances, and I’m not sure that there is a strong scriptural basis for it anyway. I’ve seen far too many people young and old overreact and explode in situations where they felt a guy was behaving inappropriately. Also, such an extreme, aggressive, and (perceived) hostile act would serve to alienate a guy that may simply be suffering from an acute case of immaturity and needs to be discipled… not leveled. This is especially true, I believe, when the person dishing out the punishment acts rashly or out of anger, which I believe would often be the case.

    In other words, while I recognize you were speaking to somewhat extreme circumstances with regard to slapping and punching, I think you could be advocating a course of action that would create more and more serious problems than it would solve, especially within the context of believers.

    I would be interested in hearing some more of your scriptural basis for the punching and slapping stuff. 🙂

    Understand that I’m a strong advocate of protecting ladies whether they be sisters or sisters in Christ (protecting weaker people in general, male or female) and am quite prepared to level a guy if they are making grossly offensive advances, bullying (in the case of a weaker or younger male) or something of that nature; but I don’t think the situations you are speaking to are as extreme as what I have in my mind.

    Thanks for the post! 🙂

    • Thanks for the insightful comment Mark!

      First off, your concerns.

      Speaking as a young man who has been leveled, and who has not been leveled, I can honestly say that it is better to be leveled. That is very often the first step to realizing that you need discipleship and mentoring. This is not just me either, I have done a lot of research in the Bible and under many mentors who have gone through the same thing: getting leveled is best.

      Yes, slapping a guy will ‘quickly lead’ to a ‘broken relationship’ because that is exactly what it is supposed to do. The girl is not the one who is supposed to be doing the mentoring: she is in fact the last person on earth who should be. She needs to sever herself from him emotionally and physically. Period.

      As for the anger issue, there are a lot of things that could be said on that head. But the simplest is that we are supposed to be angry. The girl and the righteous guys around her. It is an affront to her purity and honor, as well as an insult to God’s created order. It is a sin that should elicit righteous indignation in the breast of every person who hears about it. And as striking the guy is not a sin (from my studies at least), the verse that says ‘be ye angry and sin not’ does not forbid hitting him in that anger.

      The Biblical doctrine of self-defense has a long and drawn out basis, which would be very long to expatiate within this comment. But I will assume that you agree (as per your second to last paragraph there) with that basic foundation.

      The question on which we differ is not whether striking in defense of a girl’s purity and honor is alright, but to what degree does the affront get to continue before it is halted by a strike.

      The laxity of modern thought is great on this issue, which creates disgusting scenarios. In the older days (in the Good Old West to be more precise), men would be killed for things like what I talked about above. Not directly, but the story generally goes like this:

      1) bad guy insults girl
      2) good guy pounds bad guy into messy pulp
      3) bad guy tries to kill good guy
      4) good guy kills bad guy

      I would defend such a sequence as that as being Biblical and manly (on the part of the good guy of course). If the bad guy is apt to repent and willing to be discipled, he will probably figure out that he needs it after step 2, not before.

      Long answer, but you had a lot of questions. Haha.

      Thanks again for the comment! 🙂

    • I must say I agree with Mark. As Paul pointed out in 1 Corinthians 10:23, just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should. Perhaps a slap/punch would cause SOME people to want to change, but if I was ‘leveled’ by a guy, I probably wouldn’t be running to him for spiritual counsel after I finished tending to my black eye.

    • From my studies, and experience, and talking to many guys, a lot, if not most, guys would indeed be doing just that.

      But as Hannah said, this is not a fix-all solution. It can’t be. You need to use your judgment.

      The point is that too few people are even considering this as an option, and so things are very out of hand in our society. People can insult and do what they want without fear of anything happening to them. It is like spoiled children who have not had the rod applied.

  7. Not bad…. I’ve never really thought long and hard about these things, so this was good for me. Not that I’ve ever remotely had to deal with anything like that.

    Some questions:

    In your opinion, is it weak and silly if a girl doesn’t have the guts to slap a guy?

    Is there some sort of daily excercise I can do that will strengthen that particular muscle in my upper arm and wrist (and wherever else), that also doesn’t require excercise equipment?

    Is it necessary to do the little arm-swinging warm-up, since in my opinion it takes away from the scare-them-to-death effect?

    Is there anything I can practice on (brothers for instance, jk)?

    Is there any alteration in your technique for slapping something that is above your head? (Your demonstration is directly in front of you, for someone the same height as you, and most guys are taller than most girls, so we would have to slap “up” and to the side, if that makes sense.)

    I’ll let you know if I have any more. And if some are already covered in the latter half of the video, please pardon, as I haven’t seen that part yet (I have dial-up internet, it froze on me. 😥 )

    Thanks for spending so much time on this, it was VERRRRRRY interesting.

    • It is indeed good to be prepared. But it is good to also not be bothered with such things. 🙂

      Hmm… tough question. I think it is weak, yes. But whether or not it is a good kind of weak is a harder thing to answer. Girls are the weaker vessel, and guys are supposed to defend them, so you shouldn’t need to be really strong in that way (although it is wise and doesn’t hurt to get stronger and more skilled at defending yourself for emergencies). But a simple slap is an important thing to be able and willing to do, in my opinion.

      The thing about this slap is that it requires no muscle strength in your arms, wrists, or shoulders. They need to hang loose: you are basically whipping them at the target. What effort is there is in your hips and legs, which are much larger and stronger than your shoulder and arm muscles.

      Therefore, deep knee bends and crunches (not sit ups, those can hurt your back) are simple exercises that require no equipment and will strengthen you very adequately.

      No it isn’t. That is an exercise that you do to practice it, and I was doing it there for demonstration purposes. The actual slap is very fast with little warning.

      You can practice adequately in the air. It is also a good warm up for other exercises because it gets the blood flowing. 🙂 You don’t need a bag or anything, although if you have one you can use it to get feedback on the force of the blow.

      No there isn’t, really. You can hit anything that is within in arm’s reach, generally in front of you, and at least at shoulder height (hitting below shoulder height or to the side messes up the flow some). If you play with it in the air, you can feel the dynamics and find out for yourself what your range is.

      No problem! Feel free to ask about GJJ and/or related topics any time. 🙂

      You are welcome, I enjoyed it. Thank you for your comment!

  8. “If you aren’t sure about how to take care of a guy that way, guys, let me know. I would be happy to demonstrate. :D”

    Teehee… love it. Good stuff. I would be interested to hear your Biblical argument for the slapping. I mean, if the girl has to- if she’s alone, and he’s harming her somehow- then she should slap him, pepper-spray him, go for the eyes, whatever. But in the situation you have described, I would see it to be more Biblical for her to call her big brother or whoever to come and defend her. Would love to hear your argument.

    Thanks for the good post.

    • If a girl is alone and being harmed or threatened with harm, she needs to scream and run for help. If she cannot find anyone, and is utterly by herself, she needs to take him out. Pepper spray is very overrated, and slapping him will not be sufficient. She needs to choke him out or otherwise subdue him.

      The guy needs to be slapped for his own sake as much as hers. If he persists at all, she definitely needs to call her brother, but he should leave after a good slap. In any case she needs to tell her brother (and/or father of course).

      As for Scripture, this stance is derived logically from several principles.

      We know that God values sexual and marital purity very highly, to the point where adultery is an abomination to Him (worthy of death in OT Israel), and lusting is counted as adultery in His eyes. See also the latter part of 1 Cor. 7, talking about the importance of focusing on God rather than the opposite sex before marriage.

      We know that God values and commends self-defense, and even more the defense of others. As I told Mark, that study is massive, and too big to elaborate on in a comment. But you can look at a previous article by me on Gun Control for more on that head.

      Slapping elicits no real physical harm, but is mainly used to scare the guy, embarrass him, and punctuate your statements. As such, it is well below the threshold of over-reaction.

      Does that help?

  9. Jay, I agree with you everywhere, except that I’m more of a Roy Rogers bang-em-up than a John Wayne shoot-em-up. I’m usually more along the lines of:

    Bad guy makes inappropriate comment.
    Good guy shoves bad guy.
    Bad guy escalates physical violence.
    Good guy whoops bad guy.
    Townsfolk jeer at bad guy while kicking him out of town.

    BTW, my brother enjoyed this post very much. But he uses the Internet vicariously through me.

    A post about what guys should do with flirtatious girls would be nice. Something like “reply with smart-Aleck comment, leave room”.

  10. How come for me there’s just an empty space where the video’s supposed to be? I would love to see it.

    I don’t think I would slap someone, though, unless I really thought they were going to hurt me. If I thought he was a bad guy I might, but if I knew him to be just the nervous type, I’d probably just tell him to quit and avoid him.

    • As I said in an above comment, if you thought a guy was really going to hurt you, you ought to run and scream, and if you can’t get away, submit him with a choke, armbar, or other such tactic (not slapping or pepper spray).

      The nervous type are the ones that need the slapping the most! That is what can turn them around. Just telling them to quit just steels them for going further, later (maybe not with you).

      If you don’t cut them off sharply at the little things, they get bolder (not just with you either). For your sake, their sake, and everyone else’s sake – teach them a lesson. 🙂

  11. Never mind, the video’s there now. I don’t know why it took so long to come up.

  12. Wow, this has definitely got me thinking. I definitely don’t stand up for myself in these types of situations. I’d easier slap someone who was doing something to someone else rather than to me due to what Mark was saying – I’d be afraid I was overreacting or reading into things too much.

    I did have a question for you though: For what context is this advice given?

    I’m like Andrea and would respond as she said she would. I don’t have [much of a] problem with a brother, dad, or guy friend tearing a guy to shreds on my behalf, I just wouldn’t be able to do it myself (and not only for physical reasons!). I was in a situation where the guy [who was a stranger] should have been arrested for what he did, but at the time I was afraid I was overreacting and didn’t do anything. Could you make it a little clearer as to when this is appropriate? Is a pick-up line really grounds for this? I would think more of something like assault or harassment. . .but even there, where’s the line? And is this advice to be used with strangers or friends?. . .yeah, basically for what context is this advice given? 🙂

    Also, couldn’t this be viewed, legally, as assault itself? Wouldn’t the slapped/punched/pulpified have grounds for a lawsuit against you?

    Thanks for any insight you can offer and for this post – it was very thought-provoking (and funny!).

    • It looks to me like your foundational misgiving is the risk of overreacting. Let me know if I am wrong about that.

      The best thing for your sake and his, is to err on the side of caution: if in doubt slap him. I doubt you will overreact. 🙂 And if you make a mistake, you can graciously apologize, and he won’t make the first mistake.

      A pick-up line is good grounds for a hard slap. If someone could have gone to jail for what he did, you definitely should have done much more than just a slap. You should have screamed, fought him off, and ran. Be protected.

      The line is this: if a guy acts towards you with sexual or marital connotations (as in touching, pick-up lines, etc.), take offense. Slap him even if he is a friend, even if he is a stranger. If he persists, or tries to attack or harm you (causing pain or sexual molestation), scream, fight him off, run to someone who will defend you.

      A lawsuit for a provoked slap would be a pathetic lawsuit. It isn’t assault. 😛

      Did that answer your questions?

    • @ Jay: I think a slap from a girl would be super unlikely to lead to a lawsuit, but what you advocate for what guy easily could, especially if it were to escalate into a brawl or something related (a not unlikely event). That’s part of the reason I just can’t sign on to your view of when a guy should step in with physical force, if I understand your position.

      Harassment is grounds for decking a guy (if you are a guy) but in the eyes of the law you have to go far beyond what you are talking about for it to constitute harassment (although it can be subjective).

      I just think your view, could/would get a lot of guys into ongoing trouble; if not in the form of lawsuits then with physical rivalries with other guys that feel their manhood has been challenged (sounds silly but its true). Imagine how such actions could escalate in a public school setting…

      I have other concerns about your stated position in your post that I haven’t addressed fully. Hopefully I’ll be able to get to them after finals…I just wanted to jump in here since Abby very kindly posed one of my questions/challenges. 😛

      Thanks for posting on this issue! Despite our disagreements, this is an important issue to consider and, sadly, the overwhelming bulk of men in our day just haven’t given it a second thought, if that.

    • Mark,

      I am not saying that a guy should deck a guy in the same cases that a girl slaps a guy. People get decked only when they are being persistent, or if they severely crossed the line (as in touching, cursing, etc.).

      Does that make more sense?

    • @ Jay: Yes, you were right about my foundational misgiving being the risk of overreacting. There’s certainly a line between denial and assuming the best of others. In the case that the woman slapped a man in error, would you say, in the case of two believers, that the man should then respect the woman for standing up against what she thought to be an attack on her purity? And if he did not, would you find that to be an indication of him denying his actual intentions? (Feel free to weigh in, Mark.)

      As a girl I would be afraid of what the man would do in response to being slapped, especially if I was alone. I understand you’ve been slapped and the response led to repentance but that certainly cannot be expected of all men. Wouldn’t engaging in violence potentially lead to more harm than what was already initiated? (Mark: would this go along with what you were saying about the man feeling as though his manhood had been challenged?) It would be a different story were the woman armed but I’m speaking as though she were not.

      Yes, you answered my question. Thank you for taking the time to do so!

    • I would agree with that assessment. A real man would honor your caution, and would take it as an opportunity to learn how to communicate better. If he doesn’t, he is, in my opinion, a wimp who needed it anyways. Haha.

      The situation of you being alone is a slightly different one, because in that instance, you don’t wait after the slap to see what he does. You get out of there. You shouldn’t be alone with a guy, period.

      The situation is more risky if you are not able to defend yourself (either with a weapon like a gun or GJJ). Being alone with that kind of guy in that situation is really bad even if he doesn’t do anything. Slapping him if he starts to lead up to something makes it slightly better, but not best.

      So the bottom line is: Stay with guardians; carry a gun; learn GJJ.

  13. Interesting thoughts. While young ladies ought to be more direct than they are when guys step outside their boundaries, I do not see a whole lot of Biblical grounds for such actions. As a guy, yes… I can see your point of wanting to be slapped the moment you get out of hand. It’s the same concept as wanting God to punish us for sin so that we turn back to Him. While I agree with these desires, I do not believe it ought to be handled in this manner.

    Matthew 18 talks about confronting someone who is a believer. While it may or may not apply directly in this situation, I think we need to look carefully at the principles involved in doing it this way. In the case of a young lady, her God-ordained leader/protector/provider/etc. is her father.

    As a young man, I would much rather be slapped than have a young lady’s father come up to me and have a serious talk… why? A slap is quickly forgotten. A punch isn’t felt the next day. This in no way addresses the heart issues. It is superficial.

    A godly father will address the sin, push to the point of repentance, and challenge the young man to walk in a God-honoring way from that time forward. That is heart change rather than action change. Look at the character of God… think of examples in your life where He has disciplined you. He is a very loving God, yes… but He doesn’t mess around when it comes to sin. Sure, I wish punishment for sin was a physical slap sometimes, but in His sovereignty, He knows that a physical slap would not be nearly enough to change this heart of stone into a heart of flesh that desires to please Him in everything.

    I would agree that young ladies ought to take a much more firm stance when it comes to protecting themselves. For you young ladies, rather than acting out of anger or the emotion of the moment, I think it is much more honoring to God and to your father to submit yourself to your father as your God-given authority and protector and allow him to step up and fulfill his God-given role. We underestimate the power of our fathers in this culture because we often aren’t submissive enough to let them fulfill their God-given role… we take things into our own hands. Fathers were created for this.

    • I agree with almost everything you say there. Where we differ is your postulation that it is the girl slapping the guy or the father reprimanding and discipling him. In my view, in my experience, and in the experience of others, the one leads to the other.

      It isn’t necessarily the slap that leads the guy to righteousness, or even really repentance. It is the slap that wakes the guy up to the fact that he may need to repent, though. It lends weight to later rebuke by the father. It in no way lessens the headship of the father (unless the father specifically requests that she not do it): rather it augments it.

  14. Very interesting…I don’t think it’s very suitable to my state of life, but for most girls it’s pretty sound advise.
    Before I took a rather severe fall, I wrote a chapter of a story once where a guy tries to kiss a girl for a bet and she whacks him one.
    Thanks for the video…both educational and amusing, although I wouldn’t hit a guy unless absolutely necessary. Haha.

    God bless.

    • If you don’t mind my asking, what is it that renders it unwise for you? Just curious as to your perspective.

      Haha, that sounds right. What do you mean by ‘absolutely necessary’?

  15. I didn’t say unwise, I said unsuitable. 🙂 I’m an Air Cadet, a non-commissioned officer, one of the three highest ranks on my Sqn. I can’t afford to go around hitting lads, and those are the only ones I know. Haha. 🙂
    God gave me the grace to make a strong stand (I was petrified) against sex talk which was rife among the cadets when I first joined two years ago. Since then, only the mildest form of flirtation/boy-girl teasing goes on since then. It’s all good natured and done in fun, as there are only five girls to seven-eight boys, and they all have lives outside of the Sqn. Which is why I don’t think it’s appropriate in my case. 🙂 Whether it will still in the Air Force, I don’t know! XD

    Absolutely necessary is if a guy is making a move. Verbally…well, I can usually freeze a guy and make him embarrassed with a long, hard, icy stare. Well, the ones I work with. 🙂

    Hope that is a bit clearer…:/

    God bless! 🙂

  16. I have been watching this discussion with great fascination particularly since it strikes rather close to home.

    I don’t feel comfortable going into detail but I have dealt with comments and inappropriate touching on different occasions in the past.
    I am not a big violence person and while the thought of slapping the men I dealt with was not something that crossed my mind at the time I was more scared and upset.
    In one particular instance I had someone run his hands down the full length of my hair; something I find to be unquestionably unacceptable! I was working at a cafe and had to deal with this man on a regular (daily) basis. I spoke with my oldest brother and asked his opinion and he did say specifically (since the option was brought up) that I should not slap him and it was good that I had not done so. However, he recommended that I ought to have firmly laid the grounds that he was never to touch me again and if he did my brother would pay him a little visit and deal with it man to man.

    In the other instances I would not have hesitated to slap the men ( two brothers) who were hitting on me, should I have thought for one moment that I or my sisters were in serious jeopardy. I had no male protection at that time and both the men had just gotten out of jail and one I know for sure was a registered sex offender already. There were multiple instances that were an issue for me.
    These instances were before the one I mentioned earlier and I think I made a grave mistake in them that I want to caution the other girls on here about.

    At the time I was shocked and disgusted, but I wondered if maybe I was being overly dramatic about it, so I did not say anything about it to either my dad or brothers even though I HAD to deal with them on a semi regular basis (we were all living in the same house every other weekend) .

    That was my mistake.

    I was scared that it was dumb of me, so I did not speak up and I should have. There is so much grief that I could have avoided had I taken the plunge and let the men in my family know so they could have dealt with it. Girls out there, I cannot stress the point enough to get a godly man to stand up for you! Your dad, brothers, or I have even been blessed with godly brothers in Christ who have stood up for and protected me in this area.

    At this point, being half way across the country from any man whom I know will protect me, I can honestly say that if I felt in serious jeopardy I would not hesitate to put the “How to beat the stuffing out of a grown man” lessons, that my brothers gave me, into practice.
    I would also venture to say that a pickup line is not something that I consider to be serious jeopardy. That is just annoying and something to be ignored and walked away from.

    All in all while I might not agree with the complete manifestation of your post I really appreciate your heart in this matter and that fact that you are willing and ready to protect the girls around you. Bravo!

    • Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on your comment. That was my fault.

      There are two different situations that are floating around here. One is something that is inappropriate, but mainly annoying, and the other is both inappropriate and dangerous.

      Many of you are hesitant about slapping someone when they are merely annoying. I understand and respect that. It is up to you.

      My point is that if you take the matter up strongly when it is merely annoying, it will be less likely that he will continue and do something dangerous.

      My other point is that the guy needs to be slapped. Not hard enough to deafen or maim him (which this slap can actually do if applied correctly), but enough to get his attention without being flirtatious. From the guy’s perspective, it is best if he be slapped, for his own sake.

      Does that make sense?

      Thank you for the encouragement. I hope to find and encourage other young men like me in this area.

  17. If I may say so, I believe that a lot of the hesitation on both the slapping point, and dealing with problem behavior man to man, arises out of a modern belief that Christians aren’t supposed to be violent, or do things which might be perceived rude, or insensitive, or otherwise unlike Jesus.

    I think that, in light of the less than polite, and less than peaceful, behavior of Jesus, I think that He would have no problem with the actions Jay has advocated. (Which the exception of outright killing someone, which is more complicated at a bit closer to the specifics of a situation then I intend to get to.)

    The truth is, in other times and places, Christian woman wouldn’t have hesitated to slap a man, and Christian men certainly would have been much more willing to physically address problematic behavior. Take the Covenanting days of Scotland, for example. An act as un-threatening as a mildly flirtatious comment would have reaped some serious and immediate repercussions.

    Western Christians haven fallen into a dangerous trap, which results from a misunderstanding of what it is to be gentle, and a gentlewoman or gentleman.

    I would also like to note something else: A slap probably doesn’t need to hurt. The simply fact of being slapped ought to be enough for most men. Then again, when you’re dealing with the kind of person who isn’t phased by slapping, the strength of the slap is really irrelevant.

    A real portrait of a gentleman can be found in “To Have and to Hold”, even if the gentleman is a bit more ready to kill than he probably ought to be. (Another good thought is that men should be willing to defend women they don’t know, or don’t care about. Gentlemen in behavior toward all is a good policy.)

    • Agreed there Neil.

      The important thing to realize is that this is something that each individual person needs to decide for themselves. Each situation has thousands of unique factors that all play into your decision of what to do, and each of these needs to be taken into account.

      In general, though, the above is my stand on the issue.

  18. I understand. I usually consider myself to be one of the “weaker brethren”, and I believe that effects my feelings on lethal violence a bit. But you’re right: it’s an individual’s decision.

  19. Oh, I was referring to the Christians who refused to eat meat which had been sacrificed to idols. Paul called them the “weaker brothers”.

    I said it, because usually, if I’ve learned to associate something with worldly things, in any way, then I try to avoid whatever that something is.

  20. Warning: this post is dangerous. Do not allow your siblings to watch the video! 😀

  21. If only more than 73 people could hear this.

  22. That was very insightful! (Yes, I read and watch old Westerns!)

  23. I just now got a chance to read this post, Jay. I must say that I have been very interested in your particular thoughts on this topic because of a conversation we have had in the past. Thus, based on your post, I will try my best to respond in full to the general idea of this post.

    I think it may be best for me to put it simply for you; I do not agree with this method. I have grown up my entire life without men (besides my father) to protect me. I have been raised to protect myself and to deal with situations for myself, unless my father is an option. But, I am the secondary protector of my family here, as the oldest girl and strongest next to my dad in the household. Also, I have been raised in a public school atmosphere; in such an atmosphere, you are subject to school punishment and restrictions upon any sort of violence taken onto another.

    In many cases, slaps from girls or anything of that sort renders little but laughter and future implicating of their comments/actions. The reason? Because for a girl to slap a guy is way out of their character already, considering how they have acted in the past. The guy finds it humorous that a girl who is not characterized by violence becomes characterized by violence. Even further more, should a girl hit a guy, the guys often feel slighted or undermined and take it upon themselves to reciprocate a reaction onto the said girl that they find adequate enough to out-weigh the girl’s slap.

    There are so many dangers with this sort of philosophy that I could not even begin to recount. In my experience, the only guys that would even chose to listen or even be affected by it in a way good for the girl implicating the action are those already in the interest of protecting girls or are Christians. Otherwise, such actions only invoke a sort of anger or misguided judgement in guys that makes it more dangerous for the girls at the moment.

    Do not get me wrong, I have no problem being violent with people (I have been in the past and I will do it again, if it is warranted). But, there are very few situations in which I would ever encourage a young lady to slap a guy, especially a young lady that displays absolutely no inclinations to actually take offense to something. Most of the time when I am around guys, I use my words and my expressions. I live my life as a defense in offense mode. If I were to slap someone, they would probably know they did something wrong because I live my life in a state of calm. I live my life as a person that rarely gets angry, that my rebukes often take the forms of direct words and looks, and I restrain myself from ever coming in contact with anyone (I usually only allow handshakes). My body language and the manner in which I live forewarns most guys (some sick and perverted ones just have to be either avoided or dealt with – depends on the circumstance) that I take nothing from them and will not. I have a few guy friends in my life that I would usually go to for some help, but for the most part, I have handled life on my own out of necessity.

    A Christian is neither advocated to be passive nor violent. A Christian is advocated to be wise and discerning. There will never be a single reaction that works for everyone; there will never be a single reaction that people can take with honest and godly purity. Each person lives in different circumstances and a different culture. We are not called to react to any situation with violence right away; we are called to evaluate the situation and conduct ourselves in a manner that displays Christ. Should there be a situation where violence is needed in order to rescue His creation from a circumstance that would result in harm, then by all means use it. But, I would most definitely caution everyone in deciding to use such a method, as in most circumstances it will either be taken the wrong way or develop repercussions that neither you nor other people will be able to handle.

    Am I saying your method is wrong? No, but I am saying that one should not take this at face-value and run with it in hopes of finally discovering the solution to every situation here. In my current life circumstance, I would rarely, if ever, invoke such a course of action as it would do much more harm than good. Would I welcome a guy’s protection? Absolutely! But will I live with the assumption that it is there and that my course of action would be compliment by the protection from some guy I know? No; that would be foolish of me.

    Take what I have said as you wish. But none of it was said in disrespect to you, merely in a cautionary stance from me.

    • Thank you for the long comment, Hannah! I appreciate you taking the time to think and write that out.

      I will not debate you point by point, because I think we are agreed on your final conclusion:

      “I am saying that one should not take this at face-value and run with it in hopes of finally discovering the solution to every situation here.”

      My main goal in writing my article was to wake girls and guys up the fact that what I advocated is actually an option. Most people don’t even think of it, much less consider it, and because of that, people are much less hesitant to do things they otherwise would not do if they thought they might get slapped.

      Each situation, each person, and each insulter is unique, and every combination is unique. It is indeed impossible to recommend something that will fix every circumstance.

      But this course needs to be taken seriously, and thought upon. That is my point.

  24. Haha, this was a cool post, my brother and I thought it was good. 😀 (your video was very funny, as well as educational :D) I’m glad that I’m nearly always in the company of my best friends, my two brothers. I feel so much securer around them when I’m in a new environment.

    Might I also add one thing though: (not sure if it’s already been mentioned) If things go from bad to worse, and you have no help coming for you, Stage 4 for the girl is to call on the Lord. Our Jesus is much more powerful than anything any creep has come up against. I’ve heard very incredible stories of people who in a time of mortal danger, shouting the name of Jesus saved their lives.

    For me, I have my response in my head for times that may or may not arise:

    “In the name of Jesus, back off and leave me alone!”

    The slap may knock some fear into his head, but this statement will certainly knock some fear into his soul as he realizes who he’s -really- reckoning with! 😀

  25. Hmmm I don’t think that slapping a guy is the best way to go. Unless he is like a stranger or someone you barely know.
    2 of the guys in my youth group don’t know how to act around girls. And a lot of girls they talk to, think they are flirting with them even though they think they are just being freindly. Usually if the guy youth leaders notice that a girl is uncomfortable with how a guy is treating her, they will talk to him in private.
    So a couple times these guys would come up behind me and poke my waist (which makes me squeek.) I was really uncomfortable with that. But if i had turned around and slapped them, I probably would have discouraged them from ever coming to youth group again. Currently I try to aviod the one who still comes to youth group, and the other guy stopped coming.
    I usually try to avoid embarrassing guys, but if the guy who still comes to my youth group does it again, I am going to turn around and say… something…. I haven’t figured that out yet. lol

    • It is important to take situational context into mind, yes. A very serious reprimand on the spot and in public can be enough in that kind of situation. If he’s doing something like that, though, do not worry about embarrassing him. He deserves it. They need a wake up call. 🙂

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